Smoking in public places

[Van Durrett]

As a smoker of 2 years I strongly support the banning of smoking in restaurants.
- There is very little need or reason to smoke during the course of a meal
- Literally no restaurants provide adequate ventilation and control of second hand smoke from smoking areas
- Usually you are in a restaurant for less than 90 minutes

But I have reservations about the banning of smoking in bars and clubs. The very nature of these establishments often goes hand in hand with smoking and I think it would detract from the atmosphere if people were hanging outside all the time smoking instead of indoors enjoying time with other bar/club goers. I do not know how legislation would be written to enforce this however. What exactly defines a bar or club seems a little vague to me. I would like to see normal family style restaurants ban smoking on their own without state intervention especially since children frequent these places. (the children were mentioned near the last 1/3 of the show) Leave the other establishments to their own devices.

I also would like to express a great deal of frustration about the banning of smoking in outdoor places. The amount of air volume for the smoke to disperse is vast and when combined with the slightest breeze will dilute it even more. UNC Charlotte recently (January 2008) banned the smoking within 25 feet of any entrance to any university building which bothers me. When it is raining or I simply want to dispose of my cigarette at a trash bin I remind myself how it's not allowed. I still do it anyway and I haven't seen this rule enforced even once.

Ultimately I think the vast majority of smokers are keenly aware of how unpopular smoking is and the myriad of detrimental health effects that smoking affects upon one's body. I also think they are aware of how much it bothers other people (I know I am) and make an effort not to impose that horrid smell on other non-smokers.

This is a rights vs. public health issue and while second hand smoke is bad for you (although I don't agree with the "any amount" claimed by the US Surgeon General) preventing people from smoking in ALL public places (which looks like what we're heading to) is draconian and is a rights violation. Simply put: if the place stinks to the high heavens with tobacco smoke, leave and go someplace else that doesn't have that problem. Economics will force places like these to change their policies in accordance to what people want.

Also, while I'm on a roll, Mike Collins constantly compared smoking to other, totally different issues such as prostitution and RADAR detectors, which I don't think even comes close to being a good analogy. The guests on the show consistently emphasized that this is a public safety issue and were at a loss for words several times during the show when Mr. Collins brought these random, out-of-the-blue issues up.

[Em Hooper]

The other day, I went to the museum in Cherokee. I can't tell you how disgusting it was to enter the museum right behind a fellow who smelled to high heaven of old ashtray. At the start, I had to linger long to let the ventilation system get his stink out of the air before I could stop where he had stood. Finally, he got himself in gear and moved on quickly ahead of me and my party, taking his huge nauseous dirty ashtray odor with him.

My admission fee should provide a pleasant experience, instead of a constant irritant.

I suggest that when it comes to public space we paid admission for, every person going in should be subjected to the "stink test." It would provide a new field of work for those who have lost jobs in this stinking economic period. If they have the stomach for the work.

As long as death-dealing cigarettes are legal, let's legalize and tax pot to help the rest of us survive the robber barons and right wing crazies. The state can use the tax money and the drug thugs will have one less opportunity to create havoc in our society. Win-win.

[Van Durrett]

Well I think that places that charge admission to simply enter them are a different matter because you are paying to simply be IN the building and yes, I don't think people who don't smoke (AKA have a sense of smell) should be subjected to the odor. The guy you're talking about probably kept his smoke close to his body for an extended period of time embedding the smell further than normal. I smoke in my car (and hang on to the cigarette butts until I get where I'm going) and between fresh air coming in and keeping the cigarette close to the window, I leave hardly any smell on either me or in my car. My mother who has a sensitive nose even asked me one evening after I got home if I had quit smoking even though I had finished a cigarette less than 2 minutes before I got to the driveway.

The marijuana issue is a very big one in my opinion. I totally fail to see how tobacco and alcohol are perfectly legal to own, produce, and consume while marijuana is banned by federal and state laws in all three areas. I could go on and on about the harmful effects of cannabis's classification as a Schedule I substance but my soapbox is already sagging under my own weight and I think I'll save it for another day.

(I thought the stink test was funny if unpractical)

[Em Hooper]

I don't think much of the stench of anything in public buildings, including perfume, hair spray, and aftershave. I prefer these and pot and tobacco be kept in one's private home or car, which places I won't go. But I think about the children subjected to day-in and day-out tobacco smoke and the health risks they endure. So, given a vote, I'll go for banning smoking anywhere, anyplace. On the other hand, everyone needs a drug. For some it's money, others like smoking...you can add many other "drugs" to this list......so, if smoking is banned, it will deprive smokers of their drug, while not affecting people who prefer/can afford their drug of choice, which seems inherently unfair to me.....

All in all, I think this country needs to recognize the power of "the spirit of the law," and quit trying to control by passing itsy-bitsy specific legal restrictions so often. Change our belief system to one of social responsibility and people will make the choices that benefit the group often enough to make a big difference.
Called a social contract, right?

[Van Durrett]

I'm not sure what you mean by "as a smoker you refuse to let tobacco companies speak for you or nicotine speak its interests through you." I'd like a bit of clarification on that. I do plan on quitting soon however. During a trip this past November I went 10 days without smoking and didn't even think once about it and later during the Christmas holiday I went about 8 days without smoking and actually forgot about it. Several friends of mine started with me about a year out of high school and I think they've all quit by now with me being the lone smoker now. The topic came up one evening during summer that none of us had intended this to be a permanent habit and it really hit us that the do-or-die time was being brought upon us. My already crappy lungs (prior to smoking) combined with poor cardiovascular fitness and a family history of heart disease makes my continuation of smoking even more unhealthy than the average Joe.

I'm not sure what your tone was in the phrase "you accuse our esteemed friend Mike Collins" but I was pointing out that most, if not all, of the comparisons he made were not public safety issues as far as I can tell.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience in the museum. That story sounds positively awful and I'd like to hear a bit more about what the exhibit was about. Was it more oriented towards the tobacco industry or towards how "cool" it would be to start smoking?

I'm not sure what to say on whether or not smoking is a constitutional right. You're right in that I don't think that any single article or clause can point to that right but I find it highly wrong (I can't think of a better word right now) to ban smoking everywhere. If smoking gets banned in indoor public places, I wouldn't really mind since it only seems to make sense to me. It wouldn't affect me much at all actually.

(thanks for the "smart" compliment but remember, appearances can be deceiving ;-) )

[Em Hooper]

Van: I've been lax about keeping up.....the museum at cherokee is about the native american experience and life..... nothing much there about tobacco.....

[Michele]

Thanks Van for your interesting topic. People usually smoke in restaurants after the meal, not during. ..I know , since I am an x-smoker ( 25yrs ago.) Now, I can't stand the smell of cigarettes. It makes me quite nauseated to the point that I can not even date smokers.

I think the public has the constitutional right to clean air. Smokers don't believe this, but I can tell if someone just walking by me is a smoker. It permeates in their hair, their breathe, & their clothes, long after their last one. My friend & I went to Mid Town Sundries last week to have a beer @ the bar & some food.. Too bad the guy next to us lit up. The bar tender smiled & said, "I'll put the fan on, that will fix it." It did not. So we left.

Being outside is just as bad when a wiff of cigarette smoke drifts by. So forget that one, Van! Oh, & second hand smoke is not only bad for you, it kills as well. Smoking in the rain.. that is your choice. You don't have to light up... or do you? Ok, so I am an Oncology RN ( Cancer/chemo).

[Van Durrett]

I don't have much to reply to your post but yes, I am aware of how depreciated a smoker's sense of smell is. I didn't notice a huge change in my case because I had almost no sense of smell prior to smoking.

You're right about "having to smoke." It's a choice and one I could simply refuse. It's an addiction and the ritual of lighting up and puffing away is just as much a part of the draw to and reinforcement of smoking. There are people out there studying addictions and how they are represented in a person's mind and what little I have heard sounded fascinating. Habits, addictions, and routines are strange beasts and I think research into that area could provide some great insights into why it's so hard to quit.

[Em Hooper]

I think we need more rational people who speak up. Good for you, getting a gig on CT, if you do...LOL

[Van Durrett]

Well I'll be sure to listen on Friday or barring that I'll listen to the podcast on Monday.

Congratulations on kicking your habits although some people will disagree with you on your decision to stop eating meat.

I'm actually not independent believe it or not, just as honest and open minded as possible. When I was 16 I was pretty racist, close minded, and prejudiced but luckily I've changed quite a bit and met a lot of great people along the way. College tends to do that to some people. As far as maturity is concerned, well I've been told I'm and "old soul" before which I don't disagree with.

[Em Hooper]

Van
I had a prof in college who said it was the school's duty to open the students' minds like a drawer and empty them out to make room for new ideas. Sounds like it took with you!!! LOL

[Bret Hume]

Good lord guy...what do you expect from a NPR station!.....The only thing you are good for is paying taxes....I used to be a NPR fanatic - used to bug my co-workers about contributing to NPR...until the Clinton/Bush election run....and it became obvious to me about how biased NPR was. I still listen to NPR - change the channels during fund raising - laugh about "I'm stealing" by not supporting. Radio is a big wasteland - I wish that there were some radio network that I could trust to be objective. NPR certainly is not...what gripes is that my taxes supports a radio and TV network....Let NPR and PBS compete w/o tax payer handout....

[Van Durrett]

Err, what? I don't know how that relates to this topic or anything that I stated in my original post.